The entire concept of a written book that god sent down to a human being to spread the word does not make sense to me. A being that has the ability to create the universe, has a son that’s major power is water to wine and walking on water, and was crucified by humans. How do we even know this man existed? Language is man made, and only understood by certain people so it’s an unfair advantage that some get to understand it and others don’t ... what about the people who are never exposed to religion in their lives? How can we live based on a book written thousands of years ago... that you have to actively try to understand and decode. I’d assume God’s message would be more understandable and direct to each being, not the local priest who’s essentially an expert at deflecting and making up explanations using the scripture.
I grew up in a religious Muslim family and being religious for 16 years made me a better person. I lived as if I was being watched and merited based on my good behaviours so I obviously actively did “good” things. I appreciate the person religion has made me but I’ve grown to believe it is completely fabricated - but it works so people go with it. The closest thing to a “god” I can think of is a collective human consciousness and the unity of all humankind... not a magic man that’s baiting you to sin and will torture you when you do. I mean the latter is more likely to prevent you from doing things that may harm you.. I would like to raise my kids in future the way I was raised but I don’t believe in it and I don’t want to lie and make them delusional.
I kind of wish I did believe but it’s all nonsensical to me, especially being a scientist now it seems pretty clear it’s all bs. Can anyone attempt to explain the legitimacy of the “supernatural” side of religion and the possibility that it is sent from a god... anything... I used to despise atheism and here I am now. I can’t even force it.
This should not be a surprise to anyone. A few common responses to Qanon conspiracy theories are:
"How can anyone believe this shit?" they ask?
"This is non-sense!" they say!
I'll tell you how anyone can believe it: they have been conditioned and indoctrinated their entire goddamn lives to believe that the irrational is ration, that the impossible is possible, that fiction is fact.
They were taught to believe in talking snakes as literal truth.
They were taught to believe in virgins giving birth as literal truth.
They were taught to believe that human sacrifices can resurrect after three days.
When someone has been conditioned their entire lives to believe absurdities, it should be no surprise to anyone that those same people will embrace other delusional things, truth be damned.
Religion has taught people to accept nonsense as truth.
And now we are watching that play out with very real world consequences.
Fake God help us all.
This is a view I have held for a while and was wondering other people’s thoughts on this?
Edit: Some people not comprehending exponential growth of religion.
I teach 2nd grade, and I work at a school where we celebrate Christmas because it’s a very tight-knit community where almost all families are Christian. We also celebrate Halloween, New Years, St Patrick’s Day, etc. and always plan fun activities and parties during those weeks. We learn about all other cultures and their holidays as well.
This year I got a new student who is a Jehovah’s Witness (I’ll call her J) and her mom is the other proposed AH. Apparently Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot celebrate birthdays, any type of holiday, and cannot take a political stance. I was fine with that and figured she’d just ignore them, but I was wrong.
It started when I was teaching the government unit in SS. J would cover her ears/eyes during lessons and interrupt to say she “isn’t allowed to look at flags” and asked if I could take it off the screen. I asked if I could just put her in a breakout room during SS until we finished and have her work on other things. Her mom and my boss gave me the OK to put her in breakout rooms and exempt her from the rest of the unit.
The next incident was on one of my student’s birthdays. We sang, and afterwards I was talking to the child about their plans when J interrupted and said she isn’t allowed to be a part of birthdays. I got a little snarky and said, “Well this student does and I’m discussing it with them, so you can just try to tune us out.” She made a face, took her headphones off, and walked away.
The last incident was before break. My coworker shared a bunch of Christmas activities, videos, and books. I decided to use them too and planned to put J in a breakout room if she started to complain. She hadn’t said anything yet so I was reading a Christmas book when J’s mom came on camera and started scolding me in front of my class, saying I had been “disrespecting her child’s religion, neglecting her by putting her in breakout rooms alone, and embarrassing her by telling her to stop listening”. I told her that our school celebrates Christmas, and that in general I think children should learn about other religions and learn to accept others’ beliefs. Mom logged her off my Zoom in response.
I came back from break to angry emails from J’s mom that had my boss CCed, demanding something be done. Apparently she was offended that I sent all the kids gifts over break (it was just books and toys in bags). I talked to my boss and she didn’t seem to take any sides at all. Well, I want to continue what I’ve been doing. I feel J is... keep reading on reddit ➡
Science and practical experience both show us that humans want ritual, purpose and a sense of greater connectedness. Religions give human beings a framework that addresses these psychological and emotional desires. This is not to say that any given religion is correct or not, but it fulfils something that humans innately seek
Plenty of individual non-religious people can and do live meaningful fulfilling lives, and plenty of religious people live meaningless unfulfilling lives. But for non-religious people that requires an individual journey of discovery that takes far more effort and time than the pre-established framework that religion offers. (Although it presumably leads people to individual paths that are better tailored to them personally).
Similarly that sense of greater connectedness - of being part of something larger than yourself - is a task for the individual to try to find on their own. Again I'd say that plenty of irreligious people find this while plenty of religious people don't. But...
For as long as religion takes people by the hand and guides them to an answer, correct or not, while irreligion doesn't even point people in a general direction, religion is going to have a massive advantage winning hearts en masse. And where hearts go, minds follow.
At the moment about the only thing irreligion has in terms of helping people find ritual, meaning and connectedness is therapy. Which is expensive, wildly inconsistent and one-on-one.
This is not to say that the irreligious are under any obligation to come up with something better. Being an atheist means nothing more or less than non-belief in gods, and irreligion means nothing more or less than not having a religion.
But I feel like, as human beings who care about both ourselves and about other human beings, it benefits us to have some sort of structure in place to help us all meet these inherent emotional and psychological desires without either:
EDIT: As page0rz rightly points out in the comments, lots of individual organisations or specific philosophies do deliberately have goals and try to foster a communal culture in service of those goals. I really was thinking in terms of something broader and more generally applicable.
EDIT2: Political philosophy does fulf... keep reading on reddit ➡
God (All of them) did not prevent the Halaucaust) did not stop the Spanish flue, Did not stop the Plague, did not intervene with Covid-19. If “God so loved the world he gave his only son” don’t you think he would pop up now and then to sort things out?
Back before COVID, I (14f) noticed a girl in one of my classes was bleeding through her pants and offered her a pad and my hoodie. She's very religious to the point of getting offended if anyone says "God" and wears a cross necklace, but offering her period help didn't seem like a big deal to me.
I'm out as bi to my whole school (not willingly, I was outed by a "friend" but that's a different story). I don't make it my whole personality or anything, but a lot of people (especially those who are religious) will go out of their ways to avoid me.
I tapped her shoulder and whispered "You're bleeding through, I have a pad in my backpack and a hoodie to tie around your waist if you want it." I was just trying to help another girl out of a bad situation, but she said, and I quote, "I don't want a [email protected]'s help, you're probably just trying to prey on me and make me gay like you."
This obviously hurt my feelings since I was just trying to help, but I turned back around and didn't say anything since I knew I'd get painted in a negative light no matter what I did.
At the time, I thought she was overreacting by a lot, but now I think I might be TA for disrespecting her religion since I knew she was a Christian. So, AITA?
Not so much an education dwelling in facts, but one that teaches kids the process of finding out the truth, and teaches them how to think critically about the information that is presented to them.
It's not about banishing religion. It's about inoculating them from bullshit by giving them the right tools to figure it out with.
(warning in advance: English isn’t my first language, so I apologize if there’s any grammar/spelling mistakes. Feel free to correct me.)
As a religious person, being any of the terms mentioned above isn’t excusable, not even by religion.. You are still discriminating against people. When you tell someone to not act on their feelings, you have no idea of what you’re asking them to do. Sure, you get the people who say “I’m gay. I’m christian. I don’t act on my feelings.” And say they’re fine with it, but that’s a minority for the community. You’re asking thousands and thousands of people to give up their lover, to give up their dreams, and to you, it’s nothing.
And to the people who say it’s a choice, where do we choose? Is it in a google form? Because I don’t remember my friend choosing to get kicked out of her house. I don’t remember people choosing to get bullied, publicly harassed or even to get on death sentence. Why do you think people would choose to go through that? Is it because they want to be quirky, or because they’re just stubborn? I can answer that for you. It’s not a choice. It’s something people get mistreated for, something people get killed for, everywhere. It’s something that doesn’t allow people to be with their partners in public without wondering if there’ll be a homophobe in the crowd. It’s something that doesn’t allow people to simply be themselves, a simple change of name and pronouns isn’t hurting you, is it? You saying “she”, or “he”, or “them”, or any pronouns by that matter isn’t going to harm anyone. You calling them by their preferred name isn’t harming anyone. But calling them by their deadname? Or by the pronouns they used to go by? You cannot imagine the hurt they could feel, you don’t know wether you not accepting them for who they are is the last drop, you don’t know wether the person you misgendered online because you didn’t agree with them committed suicide because of you. People’s happiness, people’s lives can be saved, if you just call them by their pronouns. I’m sure your God will be more disappointed if an innocent’s blood is in your hands than if a simple, “she” came out of your mouth.
Thank you for reading. It might’ve turned into a half-vent. My apologies.
EDIT : Correction on the title "Beating Women" --> "Supports beating women"
EDIT : Please comment more verses for hadiths or quran that might be helpful.
EDIT: added one more section.
I have a lot of muslim friends. 2 of them got out of it recently (ex-muslims now). One of him started sharing me some of the verses in quran and hadiths with me. That's how I got exposed to many bad things written in it.
Here are some of verses that clearly shows islam is not a religion of peace (many will now saw these are taken out of context, like they usually do. To those people, all i have to say is, whatever context it may be, a "god" is asking its creations to kill one another).
islam doesn't accept other god:
>la ilaha illa allah
Which means "there's no god other than allah". This is in their prayer, and they're supposed to pray 5 times a day. Whenever we argue islam is against all other religions, most never agrees. (there are many verses that shows hate to other religions, I might add it in the future, if I have time)
Verse showing quran is made in simple language, and easy to remember.
I have linked 54 9-17 below. quran 54 9-17 17th verse is as follows:
>And We have certainly made the Quran easy to remember. So is there anyone who will be mindful?
VERSES SPREADING PEACE:
Verse Supporting BEHEADING: quran 8 12
>˹Remember, O Prophet,˺ when your Lord revealed to the angels, “I am with you. So make the believers stand firm. I will cast horror into the hearts of the disbelievers. So strike their necks and strike their fingertips.”
>Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief in the land is death, crucifixion, cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, or exile from the land. This ˹penalty˺ is a disgrace for them in this world, and they will suffer a tremendous punishment in the Hereafter
ANTI GAY Verse:
>And ˹remember˺ when Lot scolded ˹the men of˺ his people, ˹saying,˺ “Do you commit a shameful deed that no man has ever done before? You lust after men instead of women! You are certainly transgressors.” But his people’s only response was to say, “Expel them from your land! They are a people who wish to remain chaste!” So W... keep reading on reddit ➡
It´s garbage, religion is pure garbage. No matter what, I was a muslim up until 3 weeks ago. Lived my whole life with this shit, I never thought about it, but religion didn´t actually do anything good for me. There is no greater plan of a god, I still suffered even though I never did anything bad enough to justify what I went through. There is no Allah about to judge me when I die, and even if there is, the gall he must have to judge ME, HIS CREATION, is absolutely stupid. I am laying all this religious shit down, I am out. Too much conflict is caused by religion, and it´s not only happening in the middle-east, I constantly see how Catholics shit on protestants and the other way around, even protestants shit on each other because of the different branches, it´s all just bullshit. There is no peace in religion, the only thing that religion causes are echo-chambers. People will probably call me cringey atheist, but I lived with Islam. And I know damn well that other religious people will claim that Islam is the religion of the brutes, but to be honest, it´s not about which religion you follow, it´s about where you follow it. Replace Islam in afghanistan with catholicism and you will still get the same circumstances because religion always causes war in "wild" countries no matter what label it wears.
Fuck Islam, fuck christianity, fuck all religions.
I will take the risk to maybe burn in hell if I am wrong, but if that means that more people lay off this stupid mindset of religon I will gladly take it.
EDIT: I apologize for weird wording, english is not my main language.
EDIT 2: I am thankful for all these supportive and nice comments, I do not take this for granted.
If it's unfair of them to judge us because we're atheists, then it's unfair of us to judge them because they're religious.
I see this every day on r/atheism and it drives me nuts. Yeah, I hate religion too, but I don't judge a person because they just so happen to believe in a god or a set of gods. I used to believe in a god and was no different than how I am now. If you think you changed a lot since leaving religion, you're either being delusional or just a sad person. If religion defined you so much you've changed a lot, you're a moron and atheism is likely doing the same thing, defining you.
Religion shouldn't define who anyone is, and neither should atheism define YOU.
I should clarify that I’m primarily asking if people who converted to Islam in its early period also carried over rituals and beliefs systems from the pagan religions (primarily Arabia and Central Asia, because unorganized polytheistic “pagan” religions were much more widely practiced there) that they were converted from.
As far as I'm aware there's really no other difference to them to Christianity, Islam etc. except for numbers.
Asatro believes are well and alive here in Sweden, but for some reason they are considered a mythological group and nobody really takes them seriously, or at least treat them the same as christians or muslims.
I'm not religious, in fact I'm very anti-religious and enjoy discussing the effect religion has had, not just on LGBTQ people but also on women.
Every time or nearly every time I do this I get progressive religious people who will respond. In itself it's fine but then when I respond critically they'll shut down or I'll just get downvotes. Another problem I have is sometimes I'll see people want to rant something out or get something off their chest about religion, request they don't get responses from religious people assuring them that they're 'not all like that' or proselytising liberal Christianity and still get those responses.
Is there some sub for anti-religious LGBTQ people to discuss our issues without religious people intruding? They have spaces I'd expect to be banned for if I commented and I'm not interested in going there anyway, especially if they're looking for support and don't want anti-religious opinions. I'd like one for us too.
I really don't want responses defending liberal religion here. I don't want to debate you here, please be respectful of that.
I grew up in an extremely conservative church because of my parent’s beliefs. I never understood why christians were so outspoken about being AGAINST things more than the values they were FOR. I never understood why you would want to align yourself with a religion that was more excited about Sarah Palin than MLK.
Well. Here it is you assholes, the numbers show that if you identify as a Christian, you’re identifying as a hateful trump supporter. Think you’re one of those “good” ones who can change the momentum of an entire religious institution? Nope. You’re just telling me that it’s more important to have an identity as a christian than to actually live a life of kindness and love for others- because guess what, you don’t HAVE to be a part of a religion to believe and live those things, but you’ve chosen to stick by it regardless.
In my opinion, if you wanted to truly be a part of a community that wanted to show love toward humans of this world, you would distance yourself as far away as possible from anything with such a toxic, political, hateful, exclusive, and selfish group if people.
EDIT: To all those saying “not all christians”, my rant was not about how christianity can’t be kind and inclusive, the point is that- like it or not- you are choosing to identify with a large sector of the population who loudly and majority supports trash like Trump. Like it or not, that is what you’re identifying with right now. Anyone who is targeted by that bigoted rhetoric is going to stay far far away from you. There is another option- still believe in your god and work to be kind and loving and inclusive but distance yourself from that terrible reputation. Just a thought.
I want to preface this by saying I am Jewish. I’ve been listening to Ivan on podcasts and have been “triggered” by the concept of his religion getting him eliminated from the show. Andi Dorfman and Jason Mesnick are both Jewish and it was never brought up. We celebrate Christian contestants and leads for touting their faith and “loving Jesus”. I can’t help but wonder how it would be received If someone of another faith were to get rid of someone for not believing the same things as them or really spoke about their religion at all.
Has anyone else thought about this? It seems like one religion is loud and proud and everyone else is pardon my pun, chopped liver.
I have had arguments with one of my friends who I believe has a slightly bad view of gay people. She hasn't really done that much to make me think that but being a part of and believing in the Southern Baptist Church, which preaches against homosexuality. I don't think that it's possible to believe in a homophobic church while not having internalized homophobia. I know that's all besides the point of the real question but still relevant. I don't think that natural men would have any bias against homosexuality and cultures untainted by Christianity, Islam and Judaism have often practiced homosexuality openly. I don't think that Homophobia would exist if not for religions that are homophobic. Homosexuality is clearly natural and I need to know if it would stay that way if not for religion?
Update: I believe that it would exist (much less) but would be nearly impossible to justify with actual facts and logic
Title is kind of incriminating- that’s essentially what happened but let me explain:
I’m in a long-term same sex relationship and was hit with the “hate the sin, not the sinner” bit today by someone who routinely suggests or otherwise implies I need spiritual help with my condition. I really wasn’t in the mood and responded with something like, “yeah, well, hate the belief, not the believer.”
I misinterpreted her vacant-faced reaction as me needing to explain myself (looking back I realize she was just stunned) and said, “You know, the same way you believe my lifestyle is wrong, I believe your religion is wrong.”
I meant it moreso in a “I believe your religion is wrong for telling you my partnership with my S/O is inherently immoral,” kind of way, but in the end it’s all the same.
Got “talked to” later by a few people who this person then went and cried to afterwards. I mean actually cried. At first I stuck with my conviction that I wasn’t necessarily in the wrong. I did at the time hope that my words would put what she’s being doing to me into perspective for her, but everyone is insisting what I said is way worse than what she’s been saying to me. I don’t think I agree with that, but seeing the majority side with her is making me second-guess myself.
Edit: a word