Prose

A few reasons why I strongly disagree with these kinds of statements (I'm mostly referring to fiction):

>1. Prose is literally (pun intended hehe) part of the story. The writing style an author uses is a direct influence on the story they are telling. It contributes to the atmosphere, the character voice, the emotions elicited, the tone, etc. Prose is as much a part of a story as art materials are to an art piece- they are not mutually exclusive.

Hemingway's stories would not be even close to the same stories if written by a different author, nor Faulkner's, nor Tolkien's, nor Atwood's, nor Kerouac's, nor Austin's, or any thousand others. One of the main reasons these authors are renowned is not just the plot/character, but the words they used to write them.

The subject matter of DaVinci's paintings is not separable from his style. The subject matter of Picasso is not separable from his style. I believe the same can be said for many authors. No one would ever say about art: "Why pay attention to the style, just focus on the content."

>2. Noticing prose while reading is not a bad thing, and it certainly does not mean a lack of immersion. It means you're paying attention to the words, to the language. Of course, it you hate the prose and you notice it, then you know the book has a style you don't like. I'm sure we've all tried reading a book with terrible prose and what happens? It turns you off of the story. It doesn't matter how great a plot is, how great a character idea- if the writing doesn't convey the ideas well, then the final product is not great.

Some of my favorite reading moments are when I notice great prose, when the way an author chooses to say something is so powerful because of the language they used to say it, when I pause and re-read a paragraph multiple times over to soak in the writing.

You can tell when an author really cared about words and language and constructed their sentences and paragraphs with intention and artistry, and I think it's so wonderful to notice that and appreciate it and consider it part of the storytelling process itself.

I don’t know if any scene, aside from Snowden’s death (and even that had a dark punchline about Milo stealing morphine) was played entirely seriously, but there were a surprising number of poignant moments throughout the novel. Snowden’s death is the obvious go-to, but I’d also include Yossarian’s voyage through Rome at the end of the novel, Orr’s disappearance, and Kid Sampson’s/McWatt’s deaths. Furthermore, I was quite surprised by the poetic quality of Heller’s prose. You’d think it’d be contradictory to use elevated language when trying to be funny, yet Heller somehow makes it work. Perhaps his use of language is just another example of the many internal paradoxes the book lampoons.

There is massive practical overlap in prose writing and anime. How the reader, or viewer absorbs the information is almost identical. Thus your pacing can be incredibly similar.

And the broad array of stock tropes, characters, plots and expressions used in anime are almost identical to those found in GOOD writing. never write from reality. thats for suckers! Fall back on these tropes which are used almost only in anime, but which permeate that genre. Because yes; prose writing has that same set of tropes. Really it does. trust me

Now allow me to list some of my favourite animes from NetFlix....

I recently got to thinking about Purple Prose and remembered an old game I used to play.

Essentially you write something in heavy Purple Prose and the next person had to try and translate it. For example:

Her optical orbs seized the facade of a beauteous equine of the female variety.

Translation: Her eyes caught sight of a beautiful mare.

Essentially; just thesaurus the FUCK out of your sentence.

It's a great way to expand your vocabulary.

Just post a comment with a Purple Prose sentence and me or someone else will try and translate it!

I appreciate many things in my fantasy books, worldbuilding and cool magic systems and lore not the least. Recently, though, I've been finding myself mesmerized when I find good, poetic or flowing or just "pretty" prose. Perhaps even verging on what some people find "purple."

Who are some of you guys' (lesser known, perhaps) Paragons of Prose?

I know this is a somewhat frequently asked question, but I feel like I've read most of the immediate answers that spring to hand. I'll list some below.

Loved: Josiah Bancroft, Susanna Clarke, Steven Erikson, China Miéville, Mervyn Peake, Kim Stanley Robinson, Dan Simmons, Tad Williams, Gene Wolfe, This is How You Lose the Time War (I've only read this by either author, but loved it)

Liked: Joe Abercrombie (I appreciate the almost "bluntness" of the prose, and how it reflects the world), N.K. Jemisin, Ursula K. Le Guin (probably the best example of "beauty in sparseness" I can think of), Tamsyn Muir (I appreciate the unqiue voice that comes through in her prose), Patrick Rothfuss

On the radar- authors I either own or plan to buy that I've heard have good prose, but haven't quite read yet: R. Scott. Bakker, Guy Gavriel Kay, Patricia McKillip, Sofia Samatar

Help me extend my neverending TBR! Thanks in advance friends :)

I'd also love be recommended books with 'strange' (for lack of a better word) prose. Prose that itself interacts with the story- epistolary novels, novels with poor spelling for a protagonists illiteracy (Knife of Never Letting Go, Flowers for Algernon), word choice influenced by the plot (like Ella Minnow Pea), I always find myself loving.

For example this sentence:

“But in a solitary life, there are rare moments when another soul dips near yours, as stars once a year brush the earth. Such a constellation was he to me.”

Would love to know. Thank you ❤️

Wolfe and McCarthy are my favorite authors. But I'm mainly a SF fan. Especially the Dune saga. I don't (usually) read to simply be entertained. I love books that are not just a narrative, but provide a valuable experience that stays with me long afterwards.

Any recommendations are appreciated!

Recently got to reading a certain Naruto fanfic -- that shall not be named-- that a lot of my friends recommended. The grammar is good and it's well made but I just can't get myself to like it. The plot is kind of dragging and the purple prose is just too much that it's distracting for me. Ugh.

Flowery writing doesn't equate to good writing but it's just so silly how people think it is. As long as you get your point across, have good dialogue, and entertain readers, then the fic is good. It doesn't matter how descriptive your book is. Some people should just put down the thesaurus from time to time. Just saying.

I have started to gain a lot of interest in the Norse Myth so naturally I went online and looked up what to read, and I discovered the Prose Edda. I noticed something while reading it and need some answers.

These are some names in the myth:-

1. Mjollnir - Thor's Hammer.
2. Sleipnir - Odin's Horse.
3. Gungnir - Odin's Spear.
4. Draupnir - Odin's Magical Ring.

What I wanted to know is why do all names have the suffix "-nir"?

What does it mean?

Lastly, I just wanted to say that I'm new to subreddit, and apologize if this has been asked before.

I've been reading a lot of great literary works lately, and when I go back to reading academic papers, there is a very noticeable downgrade in the quality of the language employed. And I guess that that makes sense; when you want to communicate technical information, there's not a lot of room or reason to employ metaphors or colorful language.

But it still seems like there has to be some way to make these works better, to make them legitimately enjoyable to read instead of the linguistic equivalent of shoving stale bread down your throat. Obviously there is often a lot of beauty to be found when you appreciate the cleverness of new ideas being presented, but appreciating that is typically in spite of, rather than due to, the actual quality of the writing.

Is this something that anybody else here cares about?

I really love to get lost in beautiful and vivid prose. I’m interested in hearing what author/books you think have the best prose you’ve come across.

I’m also looking for suggestions on new books to check out with moving prose, even if it’s a little over the top. Fantasy-wise I loved the writing in Jacqueline Carey’s kushiel's dart and everything by Tolkien. Outside of fantasy Brideshead’s revisited and Picture of Dorian gray are some of my favorite books so I’m looking for a writing style a little like that.

Talk about whatever you want in this regular thread! Just brought some cereal? Awesome. Just ran 5 miles? Epic! Just watched Fantastic Four and recommended it to all your friends? Atta boy. Wanna bitch about Supergirl's pilot being crap? Sweet. Just walked into your Dad and his dog having some "personal time" while your sister sends snapchats of her handstands to her boyfriend leaving you in a state of perpetual confusion? Please tell us more.

Please remember that future spoilers must be tagged.

Regular Posts Schedule

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What’s does good prose mean? And what are some books (especially SFF) with extra-good prose? What makes them good?

Thanks in advance for your help!

—————

Also I know “read more” and “just read” are the number one tips, so if you’ve come here to say that, maybe also elaborate a little more on how to read to develop your own prose, give examples of good books and say what makes that prose good, etc. Thank you!

>There are people who aren't sensitive to language and they read novels like they read newspapers; for the story and the information and they're not really listening to the sentences, there are a lot of people like that and I'm sure they enjoy reading but they're not getting the ultimate pleasure that one can find in books which is in the style and is all about music tone and rhythm and I believe if you're a very sensitive reader, the music is also carrying meaning and it's very hard to articulate what they are but they're important and the more attuned to those things a reader is, the more he's gonna get out of the book.

-Paul Aster

I have always read novels like I read newspapers, not caring about the prose and only about the plot. I want to change this habit because I love reading but I've never really understood why people love poetry and prose. I want to deeply appreciate these things as well. How do I start developing a taste for good prose? What books should I read? What poetry should I read?

Claim: Many genres of writing would benefit from abandoning standard prose style for other formats like outlines.

Scope of claim: A piece of writing should abandon prose to the extent that it intends to either 1) inform or 2) argue a point from reason

• Central examples of the above:
  • News reporting
    • (Axios is a step in the right direction, I think.)
  • Scientific articles, textbooks, encyclopedias
  • Government announcements, press releases, business memos
• Less central examples, for which a combination of prose and other formats might be an improvement over pure prose:
  • Popular nonfiction
    • (Competing value: entertainment)
  • Popular essays
    • (Competing value: pathos)
• Genres that are out of scope:
  • Fiction, art

Argument:

• Prose is bad for writers
  • Prose requires arranging ideas linearly (i.e., sequentially), but that may not be their natural shape
    • Ideas could be tree-shaped, etc.
    • (I think Paul Graham said this)
  • Prose requires time-consuming frills that add little value:
    • Smooth transitions
    • Varied sentence structure and diction
    • Satisfying/cute conclusions
  • Prose is difficult to edit
    • If you want to go back and insert something, you will probably have to rearrange or edit neighboring sentences to smooth things out
  • Prose is difficult to write for people who aren’t good at words, but who might still have good ideas
• Prose is bad for readers
  • Prose is hard to skim and hard to parse
    • Readers must mentally rearrange the ideas back into their natural form (probably not linear)
    • Evidence: student notes and study guides regurgitate material in outline form
    • Evidence: In contexts where it is important that the reader understands something, writers are more likely to use broken-up prose with more headings, fonts, bullets than is considered good style. Examples: business memos, manuals and documentation, messages from your landlord about overdue rent
  • Prose can provide cover for unclear thoughts and poor arguments
    • [EDIT: Most of this section appears to be omitted due to Reddit limiting bullet depth :( ... reposting this section below as a comment]
    • Prose can do this by relying on tricks like juxtaposition and innuendo
    • In prose, it’s normal for

Oh baby, so lonely, so lonely.

Kick my feet up the dash as I smoke one more, and think about heartbreak.

I rise in the early morning and lounge around, and think about my duties.

A girl’s gotta disappear when things start to suffocate, but no one cares to check on her.

Hey it’s alright, I’ve learned to dwell in solitude.

In this life, I’ve only got myself and no one else knows me the way I know myself.

Drown the suicidal thoughts through art and poetry, and spent the night watching old films.

Curate my writing like my appearance, put on golden hoops and sharp eyeliner.

I’m no longer a little girl, my stance reformed into a darker side of femininity.

Dressing for myself through a man’s gaze, little black dresses and ripped stockings.

I want to be adored, sometimes I get sick of this loneliness.

Should I lose this icy, independent demeanour?

If I show the real me, my vulnerabilities will slip through his fingers.

Maybe he’ll love me, maybe he’ll leave me.

NEW YEAR'S EVE : OCPoetry (reddit.com)

Lava Lamp : OCPoetry (reddit.com)

Finished Slade House by David Mitchell a bit ago and really loved his writing style and the atmosphere he achieved. I wouldn't mind a more straight forward dive into horror though, written similarly or by a similar talent. I'm actually hoping for books that are even more stark and bleak, but I feel like I'm an extremely picky reader when it comes to an author's prose and if they're a gifted writer of dialogue and things like that. Any books you can recommend that were very vivid and well done, let me know!

EDIT: Lots of recommendation for Cormac McCarthy, who I really love but have read almost all of his books. He is probably my favorite author. Other similar writers I enjoy would be John Fowles and Patrick Suskind. These types of writers are definitely up my alley, so if you know of others that I'm missing, hopefully that can give some more direction for recommendations!

Jadi PC gw mati nih, benerin/beli baru sama aja harganya, mending beli baru.

Karena gw sangat noob di bidang hardware, gw habisin beberapa hari buat research hardware2 PC. Mulai dari cara baca merk2 CPU kayak "Core i5-5200"/"AMD Ryzen 7 1700X", sampai penerapan metode2 "box airflow", cable management, benchmarking, and such. Tambahan beberapa hari buat research cara kerja ESD sama pencegahannya.

Setelah itu gw habisin beberapa hari buat compare2 harga di banyak toko. Hasilnya, gw sadar kalo harga2 yang ada di local komputer store jauh lebih mahal dari harga2 online. Kan jadi tertarik belanja online nih. Tapi kalo belanja online takut ditipu, jadi gw lakuin yet another research tentang cara kerja toko online kayak Shopee. Nah, di bagian ini yang agak tricky!

Info tentang prosedur keamanan belanja online sangat minim di internet, di website Shopee itu sendiri gak nyediain panduan belanja yang aman atau cara kerja pembayarannya, jadi gw masih agak bingung. Yang gw tau, Shopee support banyak cara pembayaran kayak transfer bank, "ShopeePay"?, Alfamart/Indomart, etc. Gatau mana yang gampang, mana yang aman. Gw juga tau ada yang namanya "Rekening Bersama", semacam perantara yang pegang uangnya, biar nambah aman. Pertanyaan gw nih ya:

1. Perlukah memakai RekBer pas belanja di Shopee? Atau RekBer-nya sudah ditangani PT Shopee secara otomatis? Gw liat gaada opsi RekBer di metode pembayaran, jadi mungkin yang terakhir yang bener.
2. Kalau emang ditangani Shopee, apakah semua metode pembayaran sudah pakai RekBer? Termasuk transfer bank, transfernya ke Rekening PT Shopee, instead of langsung ke penjualnya?
3. Metode pembayaran paling aman apa? Harga komponen2 PC yang saya mau beli totalnya 3 juta.

Dah itu aja, thanks. Maaf kalau kepanjangan ini post. Maaf juga kalau pertanyaan-nya agak katrok (ndeso), maklum gapernah belanja online.

Just finished reading Codename: Wolverine and X-Men Mutant Empire Trilogy - all of them written by Christopher Golden. Really epic stuff if you ask me. Looking for similar recommendations. :)

hi all, can you please recommend to me authors who strike you as having written the most beautiful, almost poetic, prose you've ever read? (Authors that come to mind for me are Joyce, Nabokov, Pat Conroy, Thomas Wolfe, Fitzgerald...)

excited to see who you suggest. thank you!

(pipi precluded)

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This is an opening chapter I wrote fairly spontaneously, without planning ahead very far at all, and I'm mostly interested in feedback on my general prose and character voice, what intrigues you or makes you want to read on, or anything else you might have to comment on! Many thanks to any who read this :)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15CVkwXRc-017zaX-I3oa8nIh8DvqAFXSbdMRwfTKVXo/edit?usp=sharing

[First time using google docs, pls tell me if the link is broken!]

I have read the KKC, the cosmere and tried getting into the wheel of time but it just feels like it is not for me at this point and time. Especially after reading the others. Any good suggestions for book that immerses you and has a good plot and prose?

Do you all feel that prose is more important than a story or is it the other way around?

Obviously, prose has to be serviceable (so, I’m not talking about atrocious prose), and obviously, any piece that includes both a great story and stellar prose is going to be better than a piece that only has one or the other, but not every writer possesses an affinity for both.

Have you ever read a boring story that was saved by its remarkable prose?

Have you ever read merely practical prose that has been elevated by the glorious story in which it resides?

I ask because I find it so exhausting how pompous and exclusionary the writing community has become. Pieces are judged just as harshly (if not, more so) on how they’re written as they’re judged on what they’re written about.

I’m not advocating that the bar for prose be lowered, but I’m wondering if there’s a point where you say, “Okay, this author isn’t going to blow me away with her prose, but I’ll endure the standard quality of the prose because I care about the story.”

Hello guys,

there have been couple of posts about various authors (William Gass for example) in comparison with Thomas Pynchon and while I do not think that it is really possible to quantify which amazing author is better than the other, there was a sentense that really caught my attention.

Not only in the post I mention, but even more so in other threads, for example the recent one on True lit which is about Women and Men and Joseph McElroy.

Those post, and many more I have read in a couple of months all share the idea of "highest highs and lowest lows."

In the commentary under the Gass/Pynchon one, there is a idea that "the highest Gass might be higher that the highest Pynchon, while the lowest Gass might be lower than even the lowest Pynchon" and all I was thinking about since is, what highest highs do you think Thomas Pynchon have? Be it a scene, a sentence, a part of any book, a letter, maybe his Simpsons voiceover (joking).

Also, despite me not believing in the quantification of a quality in authors work in comparison to other authors. What do you think about the statement mentioned here? Do you think William Gass at his best is better than our guy at his best? What about other big name authors, Joyce, Gaddis, McElroy, Barth, Coover and many more...

What do you think about the absolutely highest high you have ever read? Be it Pynchon or not. Do not limit yourselves on the po-mo in this part of the question.

Hi all, I want to typeset some old works with modern fonts and decided to use LaTeX because it's formatting options are the best, bar none. I plan to use Bebas Neue, Overpass and Aller but I'm not sure how to import/use non LaTeX fonts (or use system fonts).

For reference, this is the look I'm going for.

Currently my TBR includes:

• War of Kings

• Dragon of Fire

• Throne of God

• Shadow of Magic

• Hero of Spells

• Age of Storms

• Blood of King

• Wolf of Death

• Silence of Swords

• James Charles: Born to Break Boundaries

“Is there an emergency?”

Kexial paced around his cell, peering through the hell-glass walls. Scientists rushed back and forth through the huge mess on the other side of the barrier, most of them ignoring him. All the tables and chairs had been cleared away, and the space was now being used to stage boxes and boxes of supplies.

“No. Shut up Kexial,” a woman holding a clipboard said as she hurried past.

“Don’t tell me to shut up. I’m a demon from the lowest hell. I can raze cities, turn people inside out.” The woman was getting out of earshot. Kexial raised his voice. “I can shift reality. Do you know how many demons can do that? How many? One? That’s right.”

He slumped back onto the pile of skulls in the corner of the cell. “Just me. I’m the only one who can shift reality. But I can’t because of this stupid hell-glass.”

The too-bright lights glared down on him, hard white and illuminating every cranny of the cell. He burrowed into the skulls, seeking a small patch of darkness.

“Kexial?”

This was a new voice. He poked his head out, skulls tumbling all over the cell. A jaw dislocated and skittered over to the far corner. A small booted foot brought its bid for freedom to a stop. A narrow hand reached down and picked it up.

“Can you really shift reality?” she said. “Six centuries of captivity and no one has even seen you try.”

Her lab coat fitted her like a corset, tails flaring out like the skirts of a dress. And she stood in his cage with him? He gave her a long once-over.

“Who are you?”

“The name’s Larrabee. My ancestors are the ones who summoned you.”

He emerged from his pile of skulls. “I can shift reality but I need blood, and none of you have ever given me so much as a paper-cut’s worth.”

She tossed the jawbone back onto the pile. “We’ve been watching you, gauging you. Do you know what’s going on in the world at the moment?”

“How would I know that?”

“Surely your ability gives you some sort of omnicogniscience.”

“I’m flattered you think so highly of me, but that sort of power is reserved for gods.”

Kexial clasped his hands behind his back and sauntered over to stand in front of the woman. He crouched, bringing himself eye to eye with the short lady. She held her ground, leaning into him the slightest bit.

“What do you want?” He forced the words out slowly, hoping she’d consider the weight of her reply very carefully.

“The end times have come. Angels and demons have gathered on the battlefield of Armageddon. Cities are being levelled. P

I’m looking for something that’s written like Poul Anderson’s “The Broken Sword” but is third person limited instead of omniscient. Basically, something like asoiaf but written like the broken sword

I’m trying a prose subscription since I’m having a lot of trouble managing short 3a-c hair as a guy. I ordered the shampoo, conditioner, and cream to start (mask didn’t seem necessary since I don’t have scalp problems). However, I’ve heard that the pre-shampoo mask is kind of a must-have to have success with the routine but it seems very expensive. Can anyone vouch before I alter the service and spend more money?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SeEJ09G5nxjZlgBxLgQJjV4gdyp3f5J0DOXeUU9kWj8/edit?usp=sharing

---

Link to WPCritique's wiki on how to critique.

*

If unsure what to give feedback on, here are some questions that I'm always interested in:

Is the story satisfying? What thoughts lingers after you finished reading?

Are there moments where it's confusing?

Any moments you like / dislike? Why?

Are there any moments you thought were unnecessary? Why?

What genre would you classify this as?

Does this remind you of another story, film, etc?

Other things that comes to mind (pacing, characterization, setting, blocking, etc.)

Normally when asked what type of books I like I would respond "as long as the characters are interesting, whatever" well I found a book where the characters were indeed cool but the prose was awful;

Alexis lashed out at her best friend. Then sighed. "I'm sorry."

If you're wondering what the big deal is, we are being told not shown what is happening. An author who has matured from these types of mistakes, Brandon Sanderson, did it quite a bit in mistborn. Luckily he has improved!

Or maybe I'm just being picky here. Thoughts?

So, what fantasy author, in your opinion, has the best prose and why?

Talk about whatever you want in this regular thread! Just brought some cereal? Awesome. Just ran 5 miles? Epic! Just watched Fantastic Four and recommended it to all your friends? Atta boy. Wanna bitch about Supergirl's pilot being crap? Sweet. Just walked into your Dad and his dog having some "personal time" while your sister sends snapchats of her handstands to her boyfriend leaving you in a state of perpetual confusion? Please tell us more.

Please remember that future spoilers must be tagged.

Regular Posts Schedule

• Latest No Stupid Questions
• Latest Rewatch
• Latest What's Who With You
• Previous Free Talk Friday

Talk about whatever you want in this regular thread! Just brought some cereal? Awesome. Just ran 5 miles? Epic! Just watched Fantastic Four and recommended it to all your friends? Atta boy. Wanna bitch about Supergirl's pilot being crap? Sweet. Just walked into your Dad and his dog having some "personal time" while your sister sends snapchats of her handstands to her boyfriend leaving you in a state of perpetual confusion? Please tell us more.

Please remember that future spoilers must be tagged.

Regular Posts Schedule

• Latest No Stupid Questions
• Latest Rewatch
• Latest What's Who With You
• Previous Free Talk Friday