Short version (you can skip to the more detailed version if you want):
As an ethical vegetarian who still consumes dairy and eggs, I'm interested in vegan arguments against this position. As in, arguments that it is not at all ethical to have this diet. I have been thinking about going vegan for ethical reasons, but as of right now I see veganism as a moral virtue rather than a moral necessity (and thus a choice rather than what is the only morally correct thing to do). This is the reason why while I acknowledge veganism as overall better for animals (considering the current situation with the dairy industry being linked to the meat industry), I don't view consuming dairy and eggs as inherently immoral. The idea that what I consume is ethical is important to me. This is why I went vegetarian and not once even considered eating meat again afterwards. I don't believe ethical meat is possible, it always involves harming of animals. And if I am similarly convinced that anything other than veganism is immoral (not just worse, but immoral/unethical) I will do the same for veganism. So know that I am open to it.
My position in more detail:
I think both vegetarianism and veganism are moral/ethical choices (veganism being the better one with the current bioindustry situation), but choose for vegetarianism because I feel like veganism is inconvenient. The one and only reason I feel fine with this is because I see it as a choice between two ethical diets. So at the centre of this question is; is vegetarianism actually an ethical choice to begin with?
While eating meat requires animals to be mistreated, dairy does not. Unfortunately, at this moment in time the dairy and meat industries are linked in such a way that animals used for dairy also suffer. It is a choice of the industry to do this and we can oppose it. It is not our fault that the dairy industry is currently designed this way, even though there are ways to produce dairy products in an animal-friendly way. Because milking a cow is not inherently immoral, it is how the industry goes about it that is questionable, coupled with the fact they are afterwards moved to slaughter. I actively support a political party in my country that is for the abolition of the bioindustry because I believe the way it is designed is unethical (Partij voor de Dieren/Party for the Animals if anyone is curious). I support them with conviction and luckily it's becoming a pretty big party in our parliament nowadays.
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I am starting tomorrow. I was thinking about going vegetarian since a few months ago and after reading a little I think that ovo lacto vegetarianism is the best way for me to start this way of eating. My goal is for it to be permanent.
Please. Of you have tips or advices I will be truly grateful.
I've decided that I possess some interest in gradually shifting to a meat-free diet, but some of the medical research that I have seen about vegetarianism is beginning to give me pause. I've often heard that vegetarians are deficient in B12, have lower IQs due to a lack of creatine, and possess higher annual rates of flu contraction (due to a compromised immune system).
Obviously, many of these side-effects are the result of improperly managed vegetarian diets, and I would like to avoid falling into the "new vegetarian" trap by properly regulating my intake of key nutrients/vitamins (and, if necessary, I am willing to employ supplements to gain certain nutrients that are difficult to obtain from non-meat sources).
So, in summary, I just created this post to request any information about some of the key nutrients that I will require from this dietary plan. I want to ensure that I am not putting my health in danger by failing to understand some of the pitfalls that tend to come with this diet.
What are the most versatile ingredients?
Some of your favorite recipes?
I need to know what to buy and how to cook it.
Thanks guys :D
I recently started questioning my way to eat I've been a vegetarian for almost 4 years and I still try to reduce my impact on environment and to consume more local. So you think it's more sustainable economically and environmentally to be only Ovo-vegetarian? Because I don't really find some fact to help me understand and decide.
edit: I don’t know why I even bother trying to solve the world’s problems. Nobody wants things to get better. Okay, I gave up again. I’m done trying to make the world a better place. I was doing this for the animals. I did it all for the animals.
As you probably know, a plant-based or vegetarian diet has been present in humans since the earliest days of history, with many famous people and even entire cultures/religions adhering to a meatless and sometimes even 100% vegetal diet and even what we would now call a vegan lifestyle. I would say that the biggest reason for this diet throughout History has been ethics, as only recently there has been a concern and awareness of the environmental and health aspects of vegetarian diets.
Some examples of cultures/religions are the dharmic religions of south Asia (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism), which have a very ancient tradition of adhering either partly or totally to a vegetarian diet as a means of practicing ahimsa — non-violence.
But vegetarianism (and veganism) is not limited to these religions. Many people have also gone against their cultural norms and adopted vegetarian diets and even vegan lifestyles, even though at that time there wasn’t a name for that. One notorious example is the famous 10th century Arabic poet-philosopher from the Islamic Golden Age, Abu al-Alaa al-Ma’arri, who adopted vegan beliefs and lifestyle in his 30s, remaining vegan until his death aged 83. He even wrote a vegan poem: I no longer steal from Nature. He was one of the most awesome human beings ever to exist. Okay, I’m done fangirling about Al-ma’arri. Back to the topic.
The point is, vegetarianism has historically been very intertwined with ethics. In recent times, however, as can be seen on reddit, the two communties, vegetarians and vegans have been growing apart, more and more segregated from each other. This has led to lots of misunderstanding and prejudice on both sides and there is a growing animosity between both, despite all vegans being vegetarians and ethics having been the number one reason for people to adopt a vegetarian diet throughout history.
I don’t know if I’m optimistic or just stupidly naïve, but I believe that with effort we can repair this bridge that was destroyed. It doesn’t make much sense to have both communities so segregated from each other and so hostile to each other when all vegans are vegetarians.
You can see just by entering into r... keep reading on reddit ➡
I’m 100% okay with ovo-lacto-vegetarianism as part of a temporary transition into veganism. I even encourage people to transition gradually instead of going cold turkey. Within reason of course. However, this is only when a person clearly wants and is working to transition to a vegan diet. Just claiming to be vegetarian for the animals but then settling for continuing to abuse those animals doesn’t sit right with me nor should it sit right with them. Maybe they are just ignorant, in which case that can easily be solved. But if they know the facts and they don’t intend to stop contributing then they can’t claim to be vegetarian for the animals. I think this is a pretty reasonable stance. Any thoughts?
edit: There’s a difference between a person living in a city or town and a person living in a food desert in the middle of nowhere. Still, the existence of people in shuch circumstances does in no way affect the access that people in towns have to a healthy plant based diet.
I just wanted to remind whoever may not be aware of this.
There are lots of people who assume that if you are vegetarian you are an ovo-lacto-vegetarian (vegetarian who eats eggs and milk), but not every vegetarian is. Ovo-lacto-vegetarianism is just a subset of Vegetariansim.
There are different kinds/subsets of vegetarianism:
All of these are still vegetarians.
Just like All French people are European but not all Europeans are French.
All A is B but not all B is A.
(*technically veganism is not a diet, but a lyfestyle, of which a (100%) plant based diet is part of. You can have a 100% plant based diet without being yourself vegan, like not eating pig doesn’t make you a muslim)
Ovo-lacto is the most common form of vegetarianism, but it’s not the only one. Vegetariansim just means that a person does not eat meat. It doesn’t say anything as to whether they do eat eggs/milk or not.
So when buying or making food for a vegetarian person don’t just automaticallt assume that they eat eggs/milk. Many vegetarians choose not to, for a variety of reasons, some of them may be allergy related, so don’t assume whithout asking.
I myself know vegetarians who are “ovo-“ but not lacto etc..
This is just to raise awareness for the people who may not know.
I have been Keto for over 2 years. In October I had a blood test and cholesterol came back high. I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian and eat eggs, cheese, almond butter and butter for my proteins. I consume 1350 calories a day including 5 eggs. My cholesterol just went up...right as I'm feeling like my diet feels perfect and maintainable. I am 9 lbs from my goal weight of 120. I am getting mixed messages from nutritionist and docter about whether eggs can cause high cholesterol. Doctor wants me to switch to 2 eggs a day and I can do egg whites for the others. I really feel like I need that fat and protein to feel as good as I finally do. Any advice?
Current lab is:
Doctor said ideal is: 200
24 net carbs
and I exercise 30 minutes- 7 days a week.
I'm seeing a lot of questions from my fellow U.S. Vegetarians (mostly newbies from what I'm seeing) on what to have for Thanksgiving. I thought I'd just make my own post with my own experiences to cover that.
First of all, this falls in the top ten questions from meat-eaters that make me laugh (but...what do you eat for Thanksgiving???) and I also see it on TV shows: so-and-so is a vegetarian now, so we have to buy a vegetarian lasagna (and I'm sitting there going WHAT???).
So, okay: I have always hated turkey. The joke in my family was that I hated turkey and my brother hated chicken. My mother got me to eat turkey by telling me it was a really big chicken. She got my brother to eat chicken by saying it was just a small turkey. She did later admit that it worked for my brother, but not so much for me. (The only reason I ate chicken was that chicken was mostly served in sauces or with breading. I never liked plain chicken breasts. Turkey is always served plain for holiday meals, and I justs never like plain meat, regardless of what it was.) Bottom line: I ALWAYS ate the sides without the meat even when I still ate meat--but, nobody ever seemed to notice that until I became a vegetarian--then they had to make a HUGE deal about it. Seriously, for the people who are new to this, please, just stop and think: do you really have turkey and no sides at Thanksgiving?? No, you really don't.
So, let's be real: U.S. America Thanksgiving is a meal full of carbohydrates and fats. The whole holiday is spending time with family and pigging out in an unhealthy way. So....embrace that. If you must have a special main dish for yourself: more power to you and keep looking for ones. But, if you don't....read on:
The sides are the best dishes! So, here you go for menu suggestions (warning: I am ovo-lacto, not vegan):
Mashed potatoes: some people add chicken broth for taste. Make sure they don't. If you are vegan, I have seen recipes online that use almond milk to make mashed potatoes creamy. Check them out.
Gravy: Look up vegetarian gravies. They exist -- usually mushroom based. Many are pre-packaged. Do an online search to buy from Amazon or find health-food stores near you that have what you're looking for. But...I have my mashed potatoes with butter. My mother grew up poor, so even when I was a kid, she brought some poorer traditions with her. Gravy with mashed potatoes was a treat. We ate them all the time with butter/margarine. (A... keep reading on reddit ➡
I've been on the ketogenic diet since June 2016. In that time I've lost 43lbs through diet and exercise.
My problem with the keto diet is meat. While I have no compunctions about eating meat, I've found that the only meats I like are beef and fish/seafood (but I really like them). I've never liked turkey, only like chicken when it's fried, and I'm not a fan of pork. And if I don't have beef, fish, or seafood for a while I don't really miss them. I do, however, miss all the wondrous varieties of vegetables and fruit. A lot.
My dilemma is that the keto diet magnificently controls my Type II diabetes. I haven't had to take metformin in over 6 months. My glucose went from a high of 250 or so down to ~100 (fasting), my A1C went from over 11 to 5.4, and my triglycerides went from space to down in the dirt. I still have elevated cholesterol. It also has done a great job with my acid reflux. For the first time is 35 years I can go more than 24 hours without an antacid. Before you ask, my T2 numbers went down before I started exercising regularly.
Any diet I go on will be to control my diabetes. My question is, is there anyone here that went vegetarian for similar reasons, and can anyone here reasonably say that I should expect the same results as a vegatarian as I have gotten on keto? Thank you for your time.
Please can anyone help me? I've tried getting differents foods like a Can of Kidney Beans and trying to work out it's Protein Carbs and Fat but no matter what I always end up with a higher percentage of Carbs. I know because I don't have meat it's going to be that but how have all the other vegetarians/vegans bodybuilders or people who have lost weight achieved this? Surely there is something else?
I do eat all Diary. Some nuts I like Pistachio, Almonds, Cashews. Don't like Walnuts. I don't like Quorn, makes me puke literally. Mushrooms I'm half half. I can eat Tofu and Soya.
Recently started to eat Brown Rice with only Veg like Raw Peppers, Onions, Chilli, Hullumi I've substitued this with Protein Cheese and Cucumbers and Cheap Sweet Chilli Sauce. I can eat this all day long I've also found Linseed/Millet Wraps
But don't know what else to eat. I would appreciate it and If I could get a whole months worth of meal plans (with 40/40/20) without breaking the Bank then I will Pay for the Meal plan. $40.
I have been trying to do this for awhile now, but had stockpiled some meat, so had to eat it all up first. Was pretty much flexitarian, only occasionally eating meat, but now it's gone, and I'm ready to jump in feet first. I chose to start in the summer because meat has never sat well with me when it's hot, so easier to give it up.
I'm doing this for health, but also for weight loss. I'm just hungry all the time, so I'm trying to work out things that fill me up that don't have many calories. I've found that iceberg lettuce (total empty calories, but lots of water and something to munch on) seems to satisfy me when I get cravings for fatty foods. I tried leaf lettuce for better nutrition, but it just doesn't seem to work as well at filling me up. A nice slice of iceberg does the trick, so I figure, whatever works, right?
I'm excited to be going into this lifestyle. I'm going ovo-lacto because I need probiotic yogurt once a day to keep a bad overpopulation of candida at bay, and hopefully with this lifestyle change, I will get rid of it once and for all. Ovo largely just for baking. I don't actually like eggs all that much, so not a big deal not to eat them as a food, per se.
Last bloodwork found I was very low normal (275) in B-12, so when I told my Dr. what I was doing, she suggested supplements, so I'm taking a B-complex that has a mega dose of B-12 in it. It really is helping a bit with energy. Once I finish up this bottle, I'll get B-12 sublinguals and only use that. I've had problems with malabsorption in the past, so also taking a multi daily until I can see that my gut is healing.
O.K., I've gone on too long. Any suggestions are more than welcome.
I being doing keto for a long time. I was thinking about going vegetarian for a few months now and this is my new year resolution.
Is it really possible doing vegetarian keto? For me this will be ideal and great. The best of both worlds. I being doing keto until today. Can I start my new year resolution at been vegetarian and still doing keto? Please. Any advices and tips that you can give me I will be truly grateful.
Personally, I have never seen a raw foodist who didn't look gaunt and malnourished. I'm really not meaning for this to be offensive, but a lot of raw foodists I've seen in person are very thin, gaunt, and have dark circles under their eyes. I have noticed that their eyes and skin are bright, but those are the only cosmetic benefits I have ever seen, besides not, you know, being obese.
I'm not dead set on the opinion that what you guys do is unhealthy at all, just looking to dispel a very scary observation. Show me all the healthy raw people you know, so I can plunge into this shit.
Someone in /r/vegan mentioned that this was the case. I always thought that vegan was a lifestyle choice, and vegetarian a diet decision.
Now I hear that what I thought was a true vegetarian, actually is called vegan.
In my country this is sadly true(Norway). I try my best to say that vegetarian is a plant based diet and adding eggs and milk would make you a semi-vegetarian or ovo/lacto/pesco/pollo/beefo vegetarian.
What are your thoughts on this?
I'm currently still a meat eater and have been researching how to transition to a ovo-lacto vegetarian diet. I was wondering if any of you here had done it and what your experiences were with it. I not only run, but I lift heavy weights a couple times a week and would ideally like to maintain my muscle mass. Would this become a matter of juggling plant-based proteins, eggs, and whey/caesin protein to get most of my protein intake and eating the rest in veggies/carbs?
And we're all such fragile gentle flowers that we can't take it.
I switched to pescetarianism a month ago, and so far things have gone pretty well. However, I want to cut the fish out of my diet, and I'm not sure of where to look for new ideas. Currently, I only eat fish once or twice a week, so it's not a huge change, but I'm still not sure what to look for in terms of new veggies, grains, etc.
My normal meals (not counting snacks) are random sauteed veggies, wraps, eggs, and various noodle and pasta creations. Occasionally I eat the fake chicken and burgers (Morning Star brand usually).
I've never in my life eaten Quinoa or Lentils, at least not knowingly. I have no idea how to cook them, or what other foods to cook them with. In addition to these two, I'm looking for some new things to cook with in general. Currently, I use a lot of asparagus, egg plant, broccoli, mushrooms, carrots, and lettuce, but I want to find new things to add to my diet!
Any ideas for simple, quick, cheap meals I can make with some new additions to my diet? (Emphasis on simple, quick, and cheap: I'm a pretty broke college student). Sauteed, boiled, baked, slow cooked, whatever. I just want to try new things and transition from pescetarian to ovo-lacto vegetarianism. Specifically, I'm also interested in a veggie-lasagna type dish.
I'm still learning the ropes, but every day I look forward to trying new recipes and cooking new things.
I've been a Pescatarian for 3 years and just recently I switched to Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian. My main goal is to become Vegan. I've heard that there is much more information that I need to know since there are animal products in make-up and almost everything. I don't plan on switching to vegan soon since I'm taking baby steps but I'd like to do my research on it so when the time comes, Im comfortable and knowledgable enough to switch. Any recommended advice, tips, or websites to check out? Thanks!
What was the main reason you switch from just vegetarian to vegan, or from omni to veganism? I've heard several different arguments as to why vegan is better than vegetarian, ranging from "Its inhumane how the animals are treated" to "Its better for the environment" to "Its just better for you." I get my milk and eggs from a friend who inherited his cows and chickens, and he doesn't keep his farm animals for profit, so its not like he keeps them in bad conditions. Rather he sees them as being pets, and let's the cows roam free in his pasture (he only has 3). His chickens get let out of the coop regularly (as long as its not too cold outside) and doesn't keep them caged while inside. Would this type of treatment still be considered inhumane? I only use eggs and milk (I use store bought butter and don't really like cheese) in recipes as called for, but I don't like eggs for breakfast and only rarely drink milk straight. Otherwise, I would like to think I am pretty close to being vegan.
I'm just curious what the general consensus is, and I am not attempting to troll for whatever reason. Also, insert obligatory statement about negative karma and some game series titled 'Elder Scrolls' and 'Skyrim' here.
If true, that explains a lot, doesn't it? Typical omnivore skum.
You will need (for two people):
1 Large Portabella Mushroom
1 Red Pepper
1 Large-side-of-small Zucchinni
1 Large-side-of-small Yellow or Crookneck Squash
2 Fist-sized Potatoes
1 package of egg noodles (or homemade!)
Beef Stroganoff Sauce Mix (and milk and sour cream to make it), Jar or the ingredients for same
How to make:
Cooking time is about 30 minutes, prep and minimal cleanup included. Two big servings. Enough for a family if an extra mushroom is cooked AND sides are provided.
My wife and I both love wine, but while I am a veritable garbage incinerator when it comes to discrimination in cuisine, she is an (ovo-lacto*) vegetarian. Looking for recipes besides my personal risotto recipe (other risottos welcome) that can stand up to roasted meat, steak, lamb chop friendly Bordeaux wines. Please reply with at least a separate left-bank and right-bank pairing, or even by more specific appellation if you are so inclined. I am looking to convert her to claret, and will move on to other huge meat wines Old and New World from there. My gratitude would be immense.
If somebody wants to throw in a bonus vegan pairing or two, that'd be cool, but definitely looking for ovo-lacto friendly. And before someone asks, yes I spent better part of an hour Googling this first, and yes I have some leads, but most of the writing on this question is very going-through-the-motions. So I thought I would trust in r/wine.
*I recognize this is redundant but you wouldn't believe how many people seem to think 'vegetarian' could potentially mean 'no eggs,' 'no dairy,' or 'vegan'.
EDIT: I didn't realize on mobile it'd pull a huge pic of Dr. Joy from one of the links I shared. Oops. Not sure how to not have that happen, my bad.
In light of it being the holiday season and also a personally historic day, I thought I would share a bit of a reflection for those who aren't instantly bored by people droning on about themselves. I hope some are able to find some camaraderie in it, others insight, perhaps some inspiration, or maybe just something to kill some spare December time. In any case, I hope you're all staying safe, healthy, and well, feeling loved or at least entertained, and if you are currently struggling or suffering, that you find healthful relief soon.
TL;DR: I've been an ethical vegan for six years and I noticed some stuff along the way.
In 2014, after spending a LOT of hours reading books¹, watching TED Talks² and documentaries³, and reading hundreds of articles of both pulp and journal varieties and theretofore having been struggling with the tentative conclusion that ovo-lacto vegetarianism might be enough, I watched Earthlings. And it was with that that I knew ethical veganism was the minimum I was capable of. Or, more directly, that I could no longer justify my consumption of calcified hen periods or stolen, nonhuman breastmilk, much less anything else taken from nonhumans--whether their skins or their rights to enjoy as natural a life as possible.
Since then, I've had the opportunity to move from a pretty vegan-unfriendly area to areas commonly believed to be vegan havens; I've seen veganism adopted by many, dropped by some; I've worked with an AR organization, organized my own and participated in others' demos, and, eventually, my activism slid almost exclusively into cyberspace. (My excuse was that I went back to school.)
Some things I didn't really understand or couldn't have expected as a new vegan but mean more than I can really put into words now (or just some notable things that have changed):
I’m an active, just turned 50, female, 5’3, 145. I’m also an ovo/lacto vegetarian. I’ve been doing bb programs forever and I’m on and off w/shakeology - have only bought it with a package or from a friend. While I eat relatively healthy, I enjoy post workout shakes, but am over the cost. I would love to know what whey-based alternatives you use.
MBFA is awesome, but I find myself hungrier doing these workouts so looking for a high protein shake alternative that will help fill me up, reduce cravings and help maintain overall health. (I also add a scoop of Vital Proteins a few times a week).
What do you use and what is your favorite thing about it?
I've recently begun an ovo-lacto vegetarian diet, and noticed that I'd always been feeling hungry like no more than 2 hours after my meals.
In the last few days, I've increased the quantity of carbs (whole grain rice, potatoes etc) and proteins (chickpeas, beans, lentils) in my plate and now I've been eating a little bit past satiety, which I was not used to do. That's the only way I found of surviving the next 3 hours without feeling massively hungry between meals.
Since I come from a lowcarb-ish background, I've been feeling really insecure and guilty about eating more carbs and end up gaining weight because of that. Can someone give me some advice about this transition? Are carbs really that bad? haha
Update: Thank you everyone who took the time to give me some suggestions! I can't wait to give them a spin!
I need some breakfast help. I am ovo/ lacto vegetarian (I eat eggs and dairy). However I have a light egg allergy, so if I eat eggs more than one day in a row, I am so stuffy it's terrible. I need breakfast protein ideas that aren't tofu scramble, eggs or nut butters. I am getting so tired of eating the same things every morning. Suggestions anyone? I am really struggling.
Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any good vegetarian cooking channel recommendations as all I can find are either vegan channels or "regular" meat channels - both are not what I'm looking for but it seems really hard to find cooking channels for the ovo-lacto vegetarian. Thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction!
I.e. arguments which preclude eating meat, but permit eating eggs and dairy?
~6 months ago a nutritionist told me that I wasn't a vegetarian, but an ovo lacto vegetarian, what's the difference?