Moral grayness is handled perfectly in TLOU. Horribly in TLOU2.

The most interesting version of moral grayness in games and media is where good characters are forced onto tough decisions, and action upon them because they're human. A bad portrayal of moral grayness are good characters forcing themselves into tough decisions and actioning on them because of emotion or motive.

Pick this apart as much you can, but this is one of the biggest flaws I saw with TLOU2's narrative and it is what made empathy extremely difficult.

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πŸ“°︎ r/TheLastOfUs2
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πŸ“…︎ Jul 10 2020
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β€œPeople who have never dealt with depression think it's just being sad or being in a bad mood. That's not what depression is for me; it's falling into a state of grayness and numbness”. -Dan Reynolds

I can relate to this quote so much and I get that a lot from people even my mom they always think it’s a bad mood but it’s deeper than that I literally have felt so depressed I couldn’t feel a thing I had emotional numbness for months..

sometimes it sucks to see people smile and be happy around you like they don’t have a care in the world sometimes I wish I had that.

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πŸ“°︎ r/depression
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Wolftales158
πŸ“…︎ Aug 27 2020
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Fan art of my favorite buff lady from The Last of Us II. Extreme moral grayness aside, please bench me ma’am
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πŸ‘€︎ u/on_that_gay_shit
πŸ“…︎ Jun 30 2020
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Foils, and the true grayness of Tolkien's writing

We've all heard the opinion that Tolkien's work is very black-and-white, with good elves, dwarves, and men coming together to fight a Dark Lord and his evil orcs. It's a very common criticism leveled at his work in fantasy circles or by other authors. (Admittedly, Martin does mention that much of the bad rap the concept gets is due to the insufficient talent of Tolkien's imitators.)

But I think Tolkien's work, particularly the Lord of the Rings (and I'm not even getting into The Silmarillion - that's a much darker shade of gray), is shaded significantly toward gray and presents far more internal conflict than he often gets credit for, although he uses a very different literary technique to draw it out: foils.

A foil is a character that brings out something in another character by their contrast, and many of the main characters (and even some of the side characters) in both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings have another character that represents a "there, but for the grace of god, go I" version of themselves. What makes it interesting is that those foils fought and lost almost exactly the same personal battles the 'good' characters fought or are fighting. There's a definite idea that anyone can fall, and we're given examples of folks that have fallen when presented with the same suite of temptations other characters face, although sometimes that fall happens before the beginning of the books.

Tolkien just divides up the two halves of the internal struggle between two characters, since he's working in third person limited perspective, rather than focusing in on the mental anguish and internal struggles of his characters - with one big exception.

So here are a few examples of foil pairs (or triplets):

  • Bilbo, Frodo, and Smeagol. This is the obvious one, and one of the few internal struggles Tolkien spends a lot of time depicting, although he still uses foils to do it. Bilbo 'wins' his fight with the temptations of the Ring by passing it along to the next generation (Frodo), but it's not a clean victory, as shown by their encounter in Rivendell (and Bilbo's conversation with Gandalf earlier, while giving up the Ring) - Bilbo obviously gave the Ring up none too soon, and there's still a piece of him that wants it. And wants it bad. Frodo fights the same fight, and he fights long and hard. (Somet
... keep reading on reddit ➑

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πŸ‘€︎ u/SomeOtherTroper
πŸ“…︎ Jun 04 2019
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And a little more grayness of our rations, Kaliningrad, Russia
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πŸ‘€︎ u/SmokiDen
πŸ“…︎ Jan 03 2020
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Never considered myself a good builder, but this is probably my proudest work yet. Likely went overboard to reduce the amount of grayness though.
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Datlossit
πŸ“…︎ May 12 2019
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You’re probably not watching this meh-Fest because why would you. But with the rain and wind and general grayness, this game looks like the NFC East
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πŸ‘€︎ u/RugbyFundak7
πŸ“…︎ Dec 10 2019
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Moral grayness

"Judge others and prepare to be judged."

I was listening to the Virtue of Selfishness today and just thinking about how the vast majority of people are morally gray i.e. black.

After listening to Meditations by Marcus Aerelius as well as Rand's stuff, I have come to the conclusion that I must live a 100% morally white life, and I strive to do this in every single facet of my life. This is for a completely selfish reason. I feel damn good being morally pure as possible and know how much of an amazing person I am for having literally no price that I would sell-out for. Real life example: I could have legally stole 100k from a bank with no repercussions other than a burnt bridge and slightly hurt credit score, yet I did not. I would like to think I could do the same whether the amount was 1M or 100M but I am honestly not sure if I could.

I am obviously not perfect but i am striving for 100% pure moral whiteness in every single action and fiber of my being. Just wondering if there was anyone else on this sub that was striving for this? Any thoughts or opinions on the matter also appreciated.

Edit: this post is an absolute shit-show lol. I want to delete it but maybe just maybe there are a few nuggets of wisdom someone can glean at my expense. I figured a few like-minded folk would reply but I guess not. Stay in school kids...lol

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πŸ‘€︎ u/theycallmenubs
πŸ“…︎ Jan 25 2019
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[Spoilers C2E64] On the Grayness of the Morality

Look, it's obvious that at the current moment, Xhorhas seems to be the good guys and the Empire (or at least the Cerberus Assembly) are the baddies. We've seen inklings of a darker side to the Queen and the people, but everything in Xhorhas screams the underdogs. In contrast, we know of the evil deeds the CA has done, and the only thing stopping the Mighty Nine from turning fully against the Empire are the bonds they have with the subjects there. However, I think there is a reason to this, and that a sudden shift in trust is going to occur. I believe the reason the Dynasty seems like the place to be is because:

We haven't met the Caleb of the Dynasty.

In all honesty, Caleb has been the driving force behind the mistrust in the Empire (however totally not saying this mistrust is false!). He's the one with knowledge on the inner workings, and insight onto the capabilities of the elite. It's only been in the most recent episodes that we've found further "evil" deeds occurring from the elites, like the forceful demonic incursions and kidnapping of holy religious artifacts.

I believe there is a point to this. The M9 have barely even seen the warfront. We consider the Dynasty to be the underdogs and the good guys because we've seen their cities and we've seen their good people, but you know what we really haven't seen? The inner party of their government. The plans they have in motion. We don't have a Caleb to tell us the lengths the Dynasty will do to win this war. The closest thing we've seen to the Dynasty's hand in this war is the attack on Felderwin and kidnapping of Yezza, and it did not even seem like much bloodshed had occurred from it, rather making it out like an attempt to retrieve their artifact (however there is the whole theory of Yezza's mind being manipulated so who knows). I mean, heck, they have soldiers capable of condensing a body into shreds in instants. Speaking of which, the magical capabilities of even the soldier during this fight don't seem too far down from the idea of a Scourger.

What I'm saying is, I strongly believe that in the coming episodes, we're about to hit some deep cuts about the Dynasty and what they will do to win. In war, both sides always commit atrocities, and both sides will work to cover them up. We know what the Empire has done because of Caleb, and I do not doubt in the slightest that we will be meeting a Caleb counterpart

... keep reading on reddit ➑

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πŸ“°︎ r/criticalrole
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πŸ‘€︎ u/k33gAn14
πŸ“…︎ May 27 2019
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Death to the tactical overlay sphere of grayness. I hate that sphere and am glad it is gone.
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πŸ“°︎ r/Eve
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Zappity_EVE
πŸ“…︎ Mar 23 2016
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This is the ideal witcher. You may not like it, but this is what peak moral grayness looks like.
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πŸ“°︎ r/Gamingcirclejerk
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πŸ“…︎ Apr 17 2018
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grayness and glitz, me, oil on panel imgur.com/gallery/8nkVuib
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πŸ“°︎ r/painting
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Moo-Tealey
πŸ“…︎ Sep 30 2019
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You are the only colorful dot in the sea of grayness
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πŸ‘€︎ u/CrispyMiner
πŸ“…︎ Mar 28 2018
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Apple Settings Page profile image has weird grayness.
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Ikkyu9541
πŸ“…︎ Mar 13 2019
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Is anyone else annoyed with how they're sweeping Rose's moral grayness under the rug?

I've felt that some of these reactions to the reveal were underwhelming. The character development is good but it's almost like they're just ignoring the bigger issue at hand here.

I think Sapphire had the most interesting things to say, but the problem here is that she just forgave Rose in like one episode. I guess the Crystal Gems had pressing concerns about getting Ruby and Sapphire back together, but still. Pearl and Greg obviously don't have any resentment towards her, they loved her. Amethyst is more concerned with Steven then anything, Ruby was more focused on exploring herself apart from Sapphire, and Steven, well, puzzles me. I can't tell if he's at the point of acceptance, just didn't want to burden Amethyst with his problems, or it hasn't sunk in yet about the implications of everything.

Can't we have someone who isn't willing to instantly forgive Rose in the span of one episode? Maybe they want to, but just feel too hurt and betrayed by her actions. Because here's the thing: even if Pearl explained the situation better and assured Sapphire that Rose had good intentions, that doesn't excuse her actions. Pink Diamond screwed over all of her court and loyal soldiers. So many died because of the war she started. She screwed over the Amethysts, who were basically like her children. She screwed over Bismuth, the Diamonds, and just countless Homeworld gems.

I love Rose's moral ambiguity. It makes her a fascinating character. But to just sweep this all under the rug when no one is giving any consideration to how the Homeworld gems might feel about this, it worries me. At this point, I want Peridot to be like, "Well, I was right, I told you Rose doomed the planet," and then listing off reasons why. But she's a Crystal Gem now so I'm not even sure if she would start sympathizing with Homeworld again.

The last thing that annoys me is that no one has any foresight about Homeworld invasions. Well, I guess Lapis brought up the possibility of the Diamonds coming back but she just left and no one else said anything about it. And while the Crystal Gems were working with the Beach City citizens with evacuation procedures it still doesn't seem like they have a real plan for what to do when the next Homeworld invasion happens.

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πŸ“°︎ r/stevenuniverse
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πŸ‘€︎ u/PixieDustFairies
πŸ“…︎ Jul 05 2018
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Nate Phelps (A former Westboro Baptist Church member) is now Atheist. Hear is story in the Grayness of Life. youtube.com/watch?v=JW2Jg…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/kain099
πŸ“…︎ Mar 31 2010
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Enough of this january shit grayness. I could use some summer! Feat. Albani Citra Witbier - a bland attempt at a belgian style.
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πŸ‘€︎ u/gruia
πŸ“…︎ Jan 26 2019
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grayness

>!the gray is real!<

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πŸ‘€︎ u/graysaxf
πŸ“…︎ Jan 20 2019
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My local GameStop is advertising The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk further showing how Nintendo’s moral and grayness is changing
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πŸ“°︎ r/Gamingcirclejerk
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πŸ‘€︎ u/KingBatista
πŸ“…︎ Feb 03 2018
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This is the ideal male body. You may not like it, but this is what peak moral grayness looks like. imgur.com/PtXLMMx
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Priesthood_Rising
πŸ“…︎ Jul 03 2017
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Life is either grayness, sadness or anxiety

on my "good" days all i feel is nothing, life feels flat and theres barely anything that makes me laugh. Im tired of all the music i usually listen to and it feels burdensome to talk to anyone. On my bad days i feel extremely down and everything feels like shit, i have a huge lump in my chest and think back on all the bad moments in my life and just feel like im a failure and always will be. At least on those days theres some music i can relate to so im just not sitting around doing nothing. If my life keeps going like this i see no reason to stay alive.

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πŸ“°︎ r/depression
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πŸ‘€︎ u/yellowpuupon
πŸ“…︎ Oct 24 2017
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Help with editing the dullness/grayness of the sky in this photo?

Hey guys, I'm renting a Nikon D750 for the week and snapped this shot in Boston today. The light wasn't great, as you can see in the picture, so I'm wondering if there's any way to dramatize any color the sky has. I don't want to take too much away from the fall foliage, as I think that's what really makes the picture pop, but any way to extract any color from the sky would be appreciated. Other constructive feedback welcome! Thanks!

https://imgur.com/a/SmhYhG9

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πŸ‘€︎ u/chanandlerbongz
πŸ“…︎ Oct 28 2018
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[English> EspaΓ±ol] moral grayness
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Aesio91
πŸ“…︎ Jan 11 2018
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Mr Gray in all his grayness. imgur.com/a/1hjHN
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πŸ“…︎ Sep 09 2016
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What might make this cloud grayness appear after a thin brown wash?
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πŸ‘€︎ u/fattylimes
πŸ“…︎ Apr 16 2017
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You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the evil greedy companies, not join them, bring moral grayness to gaming, not leave it in darkness.
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πŸ“°︎ r/Gamingcirclejerk
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πŸ“…︎ Oct 17 2017
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Everything old is new again, the grayness of Windows

Is anyone else besides me irked at this trend of simplifying user interfaces and colors to grayness and flatness so it looks like it was designed in 1984?

Microsoft in the past has said they welcome feedback on this, but only to the extent to which they will do the minimum possible work and then ignore it for future designs:

https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/3184305-bring-back-full-color-icons-to-visual-studio-2012

Lets look at calculator from Windows 10 overlaid on top of the calculator in Windows 1.0. Honestly there's probably more design work done in look of the Windows 1.0 version.

http://i.imgur.com/Ug3CcFy.png

I've been using Windows 8, 8.1 and now 10 and I and many others still miss the glass Vista theme. At this rate this is what Windows 12 will look like:

https://i-msdn.sec.s-msft.com/ee215229.image002(en-us,MSDN.10).jpg

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πŸ“°︎ r/windows
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πŸ‘€︎ u/ThaBearJew
πŸ“…︎ Aug 02 2015
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Would you guys be interested in a series of fanfilms that would explore the moral grayness of the decepticons pre war?

Hi, I'm an aspiring filmmaker (mainly writer) that have recently gotten the idea for making a few short films that would follow some transformers directly before the war broke out. My goal is to make a film that doesn't present the decepticons as pure evil right from the get go. Also some Autobots are going to switch sides just before the war (starscream like in the Cybertron games). I think it would be amazing if people would actually feel the need to side with one or the other with no clear "right and wrong" answer when it comes to questioning who's the evil ones. this means I would be going off canon on a good amount of the mythos (such as the role of the Primes, and where the Decepticons come from ) but that's why I'm here today to make sure I wouldn't be crucified for even suggesting such things. Another catch is that we would use people instead of robots. Initially I wanted to make a stop action movie with customized toys but I really want to sell the emotions of the characters so I decided to stick with humans. I could explain all the details more but I just wanted to make sure fans actually wanted to see this kind of transforemers fanfiction. Otherwise I'd move on and tell this story in some other universe.

tldr; I wanted to make sure fans wouldn't be totally offended if I tried to make a Pre-War story where the transformers are humans and not robots. And it would present neither faction as "right" or "wrong"

if this is something you guys would be willing to stand behind, I will admit my knowledge of pre war TF is wildly slim, so any and all help with characters to use and random facts about how the TF universe works would be apreciated. For instance if someone could tell me the primes from before Zeta Prime that's be great.

thanks guys I'll update this post based on your feedback.

EDIT: wow you guys have been super helpful with the recommended readings.

And as for the whole issue of using people,I feel like I and alot of other fans came for the transformers, but stayed for the characters. Which makes a project like this extremely tempting because it would almost encourage me to deviate from cannon just to make sure that it's set apart as its own thing. So rather than being a simple adaptation, it would be more like a re imagining. I definitely wouldn't include the word "Transformers" in the title simply because noone is doing much transforming. I feel like what started out as space cowboys on TV to get kids to buy space cowboy action figure

... keep reading on reddit ➑

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πŸ‘€︎ u/Guzidus
πŸ“…︎ Sep 29 2013
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GRAYNESS ABSOLVES ME
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πŸ‘€︎ u/JamesOfCarsons
πŸ“…︎ Aug 29 2016
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Suck at target acquistion due to grayness of players

Everything is so gray in this game that I don't react quickly. It's worse when I see a player without a name or something and don't register that he's an unmarked enemy..

I tried those reaction games but those all are color based. I'm not used to reacting to everything Gray.

Got any tips?

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πŸ‘€︎ u/DanzoMeteor
πŸ“…︎ Oct 12 2016
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Complex plots and moral grayness imgur.com/nIoY8oT
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πŸ‘€︎ u/woodmandate
πŸ“…︎ Jun 01 2015
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grayness
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πŸ‘€︎ u/sleeper141
πŸ“…︎ Nov 21 2012
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Rewarding myself for studying...so i call it "shining through the grayness of midterms" imgur.com/a/jSAHR#fDgKnUU
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πŸ‘€︎ u/LTshinysidez
πŸ“…︎ Mar 01 2013
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As a - still - nonpresser, and possibily a future member of the RedGuard: Should I preserve my grayness or aim for the Mighty Red, with the risk of falling amongst the purple ones?

Is it better to fight and fall during the battle or die without having tried?

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πŸ“°︎ r/thebutton
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πŸ‘€︎ u/neoandrex
πŸ“…︎ Apr 03 2015
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"Concept circle" I made based on Ayn Rand's essay "The Cult of Moral Grayness"

"The Cult of Moral Grayness" is based on the fact that there are no grays, only blacks and whites (i.e. once the "blacks" are determined there is no excuse to do anything but "white", which means any "gray" involves some sort of volitional "black"). I created a concept circle based on these two sides, with keywords from each.

The essay: http://freedomkeys.com/ar-moralgrayness.htm
The concept circle: http://i.imgur.com/hocj6H0.png

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πŸ‘€︎ u/MCRogue
πŸ“…︎ Jun 15 2014
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The Moral Grayness of the Power of the Atom facebook.com/TheVaultFall…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Tagaziel
πŸ“…︎ Jun 26 2014
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I have strayed from the true path of grayness... but being a 0 is just so satisfying.

I panicked and kept clicking the button as it hit zeros... for a solid minute my heart sank and I thought I got a 60, then I saw I was 0 and literally jumped for joy and rolled on the floor.

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πŸ‘€︎ u/Accusedbold
πŸ“…︎ Jun 05 2015
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1000 strong! I'm so proud of you, warriors of Justice and Grayness!
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Rhamni
πŸ“…︎ Apr 26 2015
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The meaning of Balance, 'Grayness', and the open questions until December.

There has been much discussion lately on all the references to 'Balance' in Star Wars media lately. I think all the answers are awaiting us in December but I think it is worth discussing in detail the nature of all these terms and what evidence we have to draw conclusions between now and TLJ.

Gray Jedi

The term Gray Jedi has been around for a long time but it always seems hard to define what being 'Gray' really means. I've seen on various social media outlets folks sharing apocryphal Gray Jedi Codes usually accompanying a badass looking person garbed in Grayish clothing. While it may seem 'edgy' and cool, it seems an excuse to allow dark side actions while still being a 'good guy'. In Legends, the Potentium heresy supported ideas of 'Gray', that there was perhaps there was no Dark Side, and even Luke's Order believed that for a short time. The Power That Be corrected that thinking in a way, but folks have chased the idea with stuff like KotOR2. I've even seen folks say the Qui-Gon was a Gray Jedi, but the reasoning for that is always quite shallow.

If we were to say being Gray meant some sort of 'Balance' between light and dark, how does one act on that in real terms? Is it indeed like some video game? "I helped some homeless people, but in order to remain balanced I need to go butcher some innocent younglings." Must you jockey the good and ill you do in the galaxy? Obviously all actions we see taken by Qui-Gon are in essence good actions, even if he is acting outside the orthodoxy of the then-Jedi Order. He followed the Living Force, but that may just be a form of the naturally Lightside Force itself (more on that below).

If we can summarize a lightsider or a darksider, what attributes can we meaningfully apply to them? A lightsider likely seeks to prevent harm, help the helpless, typical heroic type actions. A darksider likely pursues power selfishly, causes undue harm, typically villainous things. There is purpose in being a lightsider or darksider, they have agendas and ends they wish to meet. What then does a 'balanced' Gray Jedi do? Follow the will of the Force? Such a vague answer ultimately brings us no meaning without examining the nature of the Force. It should be noted that light-side Jedi profess to follow the will of the Force already, and there doesn't seem to be anything pointing towards the Force ever wanting terrible things to happen.

The Balance

Lucasfilm and Disney are steering a major pop culture gian

... keep reading on reddit ➑

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πŸ‘€︎ u/endlessmeow
πŸ“…︎ Apr 17 2017
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The Unbearable Grayness of Buildings: Soviet Architecture in [Yerevan] Armenia [Photo] thearmenite.com/2015/02/u…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/vartanm
πŸ“…︎ Feb 28 2015
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Rainy skyline, mist, grayness and buildings disappearing...it's Chicago [1.024 X 680] [OC] flickr.com/photos/lurie/5…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/jonlurie
πŸ“…︎ Jun 08 2012
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I'm deciding on donating to any of these in pride of my grayness. Suggestions? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gra…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/_Wisely_
πŸ“…︎ Apr 09 2015
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Embedding grayscale halftone pictures in QR Codes - encoding information in freedom of grayness realization forums.devshed.com/dev-sh…
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πŸ“°︎ r/geek
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πŸ‘€︎ u/jarek1
πŸ“…︎ Nov 12 2012
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Nate Phelps on "The Grayness of Life" youtube.com/user/carisahe…
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πŸ“°︎ r/atheism
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πŸ‘€︎ u/dulljake
πŸ“…︎ May 01 2010
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"People who have never dealt with depression think it's just being sad or being in a bad mood. That's not what depression is, for me; it's falling into a state of grayness and numbness." Dan Reynolds
πŸ‘︎ 91
πŸ“°︎ r/quotes
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Karamumei
πŸ“…︎ Sep 28 2019
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