The original Sleeping Beauty is really disturbing
Giambattista Basile, the original writer of the Sleeping Beauty tale, includes a king who knocks at Sleeping Beauty’s door, and when he receives no response from her, climbs through her window, rapes her, and leaves her there. Now pregnant, she wakes up only after giving birth when one of her sisters sucks the flax from the spindle from her finger. If that’s not enough, she ends up falling in love with the king who raped her, only for us to discover that the king was already married, and his wife tries to have the twins murdered and Sleeping Beauty burned alive when she finds out.
This story was from a book that had a lot of stories in it. For example, it had the story of The Happy Prince by Oscar Wilde. I think The Flea by Giambattista Basile is also in it and possibly Donkeyskin by Charles Perrault.
It hat the face of a cat on the cover and it was called A thousand stories, a thousand nights, something like that. It’s from my childhood.
The story is about a prince who is The Crow Prince and a snooty princess who has to marry him because of some weird agreement at a gathering at the palace. What little I remember is that she doesn’t know how to peel potatoes well, they’re poor and she has to sell clay pots at the market and he arrives on a horse and takes her home.
I hope you can help me, it’s driving me crazy!
A lot (though not all) of fantasy fiction involves reworking old concepts about myth, magic, spirits, and nonhuman creatures. Sometimes they're running around in modern cities, sometimes they're part of another dimension set in some equivalent of our dark ages. Whatever the setting though, when mythical creatures are used a certain problem reoccurs: overlap between those creatures.
Many mythical creatures from different cultures, or even within a single culture, resemble each other. You could use one or the other to tell your story or to breathe life into your world, but sometimes you want to use both. Ogres and trolls are an obvious example.
"Ogre" is generally considered to be a French term cooked up by Charles Perrault for a concept that already existed in a number of fairytales: the large, dim-witted and monstrous humanoid that eats people and is sometimes magical. Perrault specifically was drawing off of Italian fairytales, like those of Giambattista Basile, in which the Italian word "orco" referred to the monsters, and Perrault turned this into "ogre."
Trolls have a somewhat more complex history, but a popular version that appears both in old Scandinavian sagas and also later era fairytales is, essentially, an ogre: an oversized, humanoid monstrosity that devours humans and has supernatural qualities.
In some ways "ogre" can bee seen as a catchall term for a type of monster that appears in many different traditions from around the world, while the troll has some more unique Scandinavian quirks. Yet in many fantasy works they are treated as two distinct creatures that coexist simultaneously. This has led to many new reinterpretations as writers struggle to find ways to have both in their setting while also making them distinct from each other.
Have you ever grappled with this problem in your own worldbuilding and how did you solve it? When looking at two similar mythical creatures you're interested in, how do you decide which to discard and which to keep, and if you discard neither, how do you choose to distinguish them?
"And they lived happily ever after," our strawman says, "Now when you're older, I'll read you the original version by the Brothers Grimm. That one is a lot more gory."
Then the book starts talking to her, and a cartoon illustration of Adam speaks
"Actually, these stories were old news by the time the Brothers Grimm got to collecting them in the 19th century. The particular tale of Cinderella actually dates back as far as Ancient Greece."
"What the-how'd you get in here?!" The strawman speaks.
Then Adam goes around and explains that the Brothers Grimm isn't even the original version of Cinderella - as Charles Perrault beat them to putting it in literary form, and Giambattista Basile even beat Perrault to it, albeit posthumously.
And that's just one tale - Adam can easily "ruin" them by saying how many of these don't really have a "canon" version - they were passed down orally, and everyone has all sorts of regional variations. Easy to mention things like "The Epic of Mwindo" or "Anansi", which are two very good examples of how African folktales were mostly passed down orally, and how there are some variations within them.
Adam can also include a few common "Fairy tales" that are newer than they think. ie, Pinocchio was actually from the 1880s and was a serial - that didn't even include one of the most known characters (The "blue fairy") nor did it have a happy ending - t ended pinocchio being hanged, and it wasn't Disney who gave it a happy ending by making him a real boy.
Arthurian Legend doesn't have an actual "canon" - Sir Lancelot was actually someone else's "OC Do not steal", the holy grail is more tied into the Fisher King, Galahad was put in as sort of a contrast, Lancelot x Guinevere was because of the old concepts of "love" whereas making Guinevere and Lancelot love each other despite Guinevere's marriage to Arthur wasn't treated as a "Bad thing" (also an explanation as to the term "Lovechild"), the sword in the stone isn't Excalibur...
...also some other standard "haha they bowlderise a lot". Ie, the little mermaid dies at the original, the wicked stepmother danced in red hot iron shoes until she died, the piece of the mirror might still be in Kai's eye... but like how a lot of storytellers gave their own twists to the tale, added elements
Attested in Giambattista Basile's version of Petrosinella, a fairy tale which later became known to English speakers as Rapunzel. (I learned about it from the FB of the historian Alexandre Nemirovsky.) Savour the typically Neapolitan flair:
> Pigliannose lo ‘mpaccio de lo russo, voze mettere a la merda lo musso.
That is, “having taken the trouble of studying Russian, (s)he wants to put his/her face into shit”. The meaning is: you should mind your own business, lest harm comes your way; “meddle and smart for it”. Trying to learn Russian is here used as a metaphor for doing something wildly beyond a common person's ways.
Sleeping Beauty was originally written in 1632 by Italian author Giambattista Basile
I remember catching wind of Tale of Tales early in 2016 when it was being released, just by finding an odd poster or something for it. No one was talking about it and I couldn't find a theater within even a few hours of me that was playing it, much to my disappointment. Even now, over a year later, I never hear the movie mentioned at all. I'd almost forgotten about it. Almost.
Thank goodness I didn't forget it. What a beautiful, gorgeous, fantastical film. Based on fairy tales written by Italian poet Giambattista Basile, Tale of Tales weaves together three stories of kings and queens whose rampant desires ruin their lives and the lives or those around them. While I was under the impression that it would be a traditional anthology going into it, the three stories are actually woven together until they conclude in a final scene together. I had no prior knowledge of director Matteo Garrone, but he captures the atmosphere of a dark fairy tale masterfully. The cast is also packed with talent and recognizable names, such as Selma Hayek, Victor Cassel, Toby Jones and John C. Reilly. I adored all the performances, big or small, and remained engaged even through the film's pretty meaty running time.
The sets, costumes and locations are incredible eye candy. Richly detailed, colorful and expansive, yet so often misty and eerily empty. The sets never feel overloaded, instead leaving plenty of open space and breathing room for the characters and smaller details. The film was shot all over Italy and the locations, both in castles, forests, lakes and mountains are breathtaking. There are also multiple practical creature effects in the film that look wonderful, though one of the larger ones featured has some limited use/mobility due to malfunctions with it. Besides incredible visuals, the score is pretty, atmospheric and highly enjoyable. It's simply a finely crafted package in all technical regards.
The stories are dark and whimsical, with clear moral messages despite some level of ambiguity in the ending. While labelled as a horror film, the horror elements are incredibly light. I expected as much, but it was even lighter than I expected. There are some supernatural creatures, black magic, and a few grisly deaths, but don't expect to be scared any more than you might be reading a Grimm Fairy Tale or something of the like; still, these are such timeless and wonderfully crafted tales that I they can be enjoyed by viewers in and out of the ge... keep reading on reddit ➡
- En compétition:
La loi du marché - Stéphane Brizé: sortie le 19 mai.
Drame. Film social. À 51 ans, après 20 mois de chômage, Thierry commence un nouveau travail qui le met bientôt face à un dilemme moral. Pour garder son emploi, peut-il tout accepter ?
(Stéphane Brizé: Quelques heures de printemps, Mademoiselle Chambon...)
The Valley of Love - Guillaume Nicloux: sortie le 17 juin.
Isabelle Huppert, Gérard Depardieu...
Drame. Isabelle et Gérard se rendent à un étrange rendez-vous dans la Vallée de la mort, en Californie. Ils ne se sont pas revus depuis des années et répondent à une invitation de leur fils Michael, photographe, qu'ils ont reçue après son suicide, 6 mois auparavant. Malgré l'absurdité de la situation, ils décident de suivre la programme initiatique imaginé par Michael...
(Guillaume Nicloux: La religieuse, L'enlèvement de Michel Houellebecq, Le Concile de pierre, le poulpe...)
Tale of Tales - Matteo Garrone: sortie le 1er juillet.
Vincent Cassel, Salma Hayek, John C. Reilly, Toby Jones.
Historique-Fantastique.Il était une fois trois royaumes voisins où dans de merveilleux châteaux régnaient rois et reines, princes et princesses : un roi fornicateur et libertin, un autre captivé par un étrange animal ; une reine obsédée par son désir d’enfant... Sorciers et fées, monstres redoutables, ogre et vieilles lavandières, saltimbanques et courtisans sont les héros de cette libre interprétation des célèbres contes de Giambattista Basile. (Game of Thrones vibes: mouuuais).
(Matteo Garrone: Gomorra, Reality...)
"Dheepan" - Jacques Audiard: sortie le 26 Août.
Acteurs débutants/non professionnels pour la plupart + Vincent Rottiers et Marc Zinga.
Drame. Film social. Un combattant de l'indépendance tamoule fuit le Sri Lanka en compagnie d'une femme et d'une petite fille qu'il ne connait pas, espérant obtenir l'asile politique en Europe. Il tente de reconstruire sa vie avec elles dans la banlieue de Paris mais est confronté à la violence.
(Jacques Audiard: Un prophète, De battre mon cœur s'est arrêté, Sur mes lèvres, De rouille et d'os, Regarde les hommes tomber...)
La forêt des songes/The Sea Of Trees - Gus Van Sant: sortie le 9 septembre.
Jam... keep reading on reddit ➡
I remember a long while ago that MatPat said he'd like to do a theory on RWBY. If he hasn't been able to start researching the theory yet for whatever reason, then I'd like to make a suggestion based on a theory my friend Serah had.
Specifically, I'd like to start this off by saying that most RWBY characters are in some way based on real-life fairy-tale/mythological heroes and/or villains. Ruby is based on little red riding hood if she could fight back, Weiss is Snow White if her step-parent got his/her way, Blake is Belle from Beauty & the Beast if Prince Adam (ha ha) never found true love, Yang is goldilocks if she could fight the bears off, etc.
This is where my friend Serah's theory started: I'd like to posit that Salem, the mysterious big-bad of RWBY, isn't mysterious at all--though she is big and certainly bad. She goes by a few names as we know her, though the biggest two are the Mistress of All Evil, or...
To quote my friend,
"Giambattista Basile's "Sun, Moon, and Talia" is where the original Sleeping Beauty came from. In the original, Maleficent was not evil; in fact, she was a good queen who was cheated on by her husband, who ended up having a baby, Talia, out of wedlock. In her anger, she orders the baby to be killed, but the king saves the children in the end and Maleficent, branded a witch and "killer of children", was burned at the stake."
Instead of dying at the stake, though, Maleficent manages to live on by draining the life force from "Princesses." Additionally, the original character was summarily referred to as 'the wicked fairy godmother.' Salem even has her own loyal servant in the form of Tyrian just like how Maleficent had Diablo, a crystal ball in the form of the Seer Grimm just like how Maleficent had her crystal ball atop her staff, and just like Maleficent, Salem mass-produces an army of dark, unnatural creatures that seem in endless supply.
But why stop there?
There are almost definite visual similarities from Sleeping Beauty itself to RWBY; from how Phillip wears a red cloak to how his sword turns silver when it pierces Maleficent's chest, a-la the red cloak Ruby wears and the silver-eyes, to the fact that Maleficent uses a dragon form, just like how we see Salem using a dragon in the form of the Wyvern in volume 3!
So, in sum total, if you've made it this far, I hope you're convinced. I know most of you guys can probably rip into this thing more than I can, but this was just meant to be a... keep reading on reddit ➡
Ein Oger ist ein menschenähnlicher Unhold in Märchen, Sagen, fantastischen oder ähnlichen Erzählungen. Das Wort ist erst in neuerer Zeit aus dem Englischen übernommen, wo es wiederum aus dem Französischen stammt. Im Deutschen gibt es keine genaue Entsprechung. Das französische Wort ogre (u/NorseFenrir) seinerseits ist erstmals 1697 in den Märchen von u/SharlBird belegt, z. B. in dem vom Kleinen Däumling. Perrault hat es vermutlich von dem als Vorlage benutzten italienischen Autor Giambattista Basile (1575–1632) übernommen, bei dem es als orco erscheint. Dessen Ursprung ist vermutlich lateinisch orcus (u/MetalGilSolid). Moritz Hartmann umschreibt es in einer Nacherzählung des Däumlings (Märchen nach Perrault, Stuttgart 1867) mit „Riese“. Etymologisch betrachtet, ist der Oger daher vermutlich mit dem Ork verwandt, einem fiktiven Wesen nichtmenschlicher Art, das im 20. Jahrhundert unter anderem in den Erzählungen Der kleine u/titan3845 sowie Der Herr der Ringe von J. R. R. Tolkien wiederbelebt wurde.
Das Wort bezeichnet heute ein fiktives, menschenartiges, aber missgestaltetes Wesen, das sich in der Regel durch enorme Körpergröße und Kraft auszeichnet. u/Cozmo23's wirken hässlich und scheuen den Kontakt mit Menschen. Sie werden meist als zwar gewalttätig und aggressiv, aber eher dumm dargestellt. Ähnlich wie Riesen führen sie oft eine Keule oder andere plumpe Waffen mit sich, sind aber stark auch im waffenlosen Kampf. Auch eine Vorliebe für Menschen-, am liebsten Kinderfleisch wird ihnen zugeschrieben – weswegen das französische ogre ins Deutsche meist als ‚Menschenfresser‘ oder ‚Kinderfresser‘ übersetzt wurde. Letzteres ist der deutsche Titel eines Romans von Jacques Chessex. Im Roman Zurück kommt nur der Tod von Charlie Higson heißt es, das Wort Oger stamme vom Wort Ungar ab.
Die Details der verschiedenen fiktiven Rassen von Ogern können sehr unterschiedlich sein. Bestimmte Charakteristika werden ihnen aber fast immer zugeschrieben: eine stattliche Größe und enorme Stärke. Insbesondere erscheinen sie als fettleibig oder aber muskelbepackt. Ihre Kleidung ist in der Regel primitiv. Aus den Knochen ihrer Opfer fertigen sie Trophäen und Talismane, mit denen sie sowohl ihre Behausungen als auch sich selbst schmücken. Oft gibt man ihnen nicht einmal eine zivilisierte Sprache. In diesem Fall beschränkt sich ihre Kommunikation auf das Notwendigste und besteht zu einem Großteil aus Gebärden und Rufen.
Der männliche Held in Theodor Fontanes 1888 erschienenen Roman... keep reading on reddit ➡
My research revolves around fairy tales and I had this question arise in my head after reading a tale from Giambattista Basile's 1634 Il Pentamerone. The tale that made me wonder about this is called 'Cagliuso' or 'Pippo', but more commonly known from Charles Perrault's variant, 'Puss in Boots'. If you don't know the tale, basically a cat is left to an impoverished boy as his only inheritance, the cat does a series of clever maneuvers that make the boy seem like a Lord, and he ends up marrying well and rising exponentially in status.
Obviously I'm not taking the fairy tale as an account of a true story (talking cats and all), but I wondered about how achievable a determined social climber's journey would have been. Surely, the manner of speech and modes of behaviour/civility (such as how to behave at the table) would have given them away, even if they were able to obtain clothes that reflected a higher status. That said, I'd be really interested to know if there were any recorded accounts of people moving from the bottom up. I'm sure there's some really obvious famous example I'm not remembering, but please enlighten me!